Wikipedia talk:Using Catalan in a biography lede

Wikipedia essays are somewhat strange things. They express a particular point of view, which can be a valuable thing. They can lead to constructive changes to guidance or policy, as our essay on "Crime Labels" did [[Wikipedia:Crime labels]]. But they are also open to editing by anyone, so there is nothing really stopping anyone from rewriting one's essay with a different point of view. I am loath to get too involved with the essay for this and other reasons. In any case, the broader issue of labels in the lead sentence of biographies is endlessly controversial. An RfC on a similar topic, of many, is occurring regarding [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biography#RfC_on_MOS:NATIONALITY_for_First_Nations_(Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islander)_Australians]] [[User:Bdushaw|Bdushaw]] ([[User talk:Bdushaw|talk]]) 02:22, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia essays are somewhat strange things. They express a particular point of view, which can be a valuable thing. They can lead to constructive changes to guidance or policy, as our essay on "Crime Labels" did [[Wikipedia:Crime labels]]. But they are also open to editing by anyone, so there is nothing really stopping anyone from rewriting one's essay with a different point of view. I am loath to get too involved with the essay for this and other reasons. In any case, the broader issue of labels in the lead sentence of biographies is endlessly controversial. An RfC on a similar topic, of many, is occurring regarding [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biography#RfC_on_MOS:NATIONALITY_for_First_Nations_(Aboriginal_and_Torres_Strait_Islander)_Australians]] [[User:Bdushaw|Bdushaw]] ([[User talk:Bdushaw|talk]]) 02:22, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

:To respond:

:* We can add mention of that, in perhaps a WikiProject advice section or more discussion of the ultimate aim to have the most accurate and informative label

:* Maybe a section on tips for determining factors?

:* {{tq|no clear consensus on preferred phrasing when applying Catalan in a biography lede; whichever is added first should have primacy unless there is reason (or consensus) to change it.}} - as the previous RfCs haven't established a consensus format, there's no way to enforce one over another except with discussion unless there's a good reason to change it. This means to keep STATUSQUO while discussion, if needed, is ongoing - and of course "X phrasing was here first" would not be considered a good argument if the quality of 'X phrasing' was the topic of debate. Something like this could be made explicit if it concerns you (but I do think anyone trying to abuse 'but it was here first' if people point out valid reasons to change it will be swiftly ignored as disruptive)

:* I agree, that's why the introduction to the topic was very brief; if this essay is to compile and clarify advice, we have no use to add fuel to the flames

:[[User:Kingsif|Kingsif]] ([[User talk:Kingsif|talk]]) 05:02, 7 July 2025 (UTC)