Talk:Abraham Lincoln

::::::@[[User:Remsense|Remsense]]. Please consider that the meaning of what you are saying is not as plain as you think. Your example was that Lincoln wanted to limit ''individual'' freedom of speech, not ''states''<nowiki/>' freedom of speech. I asked for an example of when Lincoln threatened freedom of speech. You have not answered that question with respect to either individual freedom of speech or states' freedom of speech. Therefore, you have provided no evidence that the Southern states believed that they needed to protect either (though only states' right to freedom of speech is relevant for present purposes). [[User:Maurice Magnus|Maurice Magnus]] ([[User talk:Maurice Magnus|talk]]) 04:48, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::@[[User:Remsense|Remsense]]. Please consider that the meaning of what you are saying is not as plain as you think. Your example was that Lincoln wanted to limit ''individual'' freedom of speech, not ''states''<nowiki/>' freedom of speech. I asked for an example of when Lincoln threatened freedom of speech. You have not answered that question with respect to either individual freedom of speech or states' freedom of speech. Therefore, you have provided no evidence that the Southern states believed that they needed to protect either (though only states' right to freedom of speech is relevant for present purposes). [[User:Maurice Magnus|Maurice Magnus]] ([[User talk:Maurice Magnus|talk]]) 04:48, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::My point is it is harmful to smooth over everything after otherwise correctly identifying the primary issue, because we cease to be able to learn lessons about human failure from humans failing and making excuses to themselves. The moral of the story becomes to pride ourselves utterly on having morals. This is leering off-topic—inasmuch as it is relevant but only for the balance of a few words in this article. Again, I defer to those looking directly at the sources and working on this article's FAC. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;🌈&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 04:52, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

:::::::My point is it is harmful to smooth over everything after otherwise correctly identifying the primary issue, because we cease to be able to learn lessons about human failure from humans failing and making excuses to themselves. The moral of the story becomes to pride ourselves utterly on having morals. This is leering off-topic—inasmuch as it is relevant but only for the balance of a few words in this article. Again, I defer to those looking directly at the sources and working on this article's FAC. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">[[User:Remsense|<span style="color:#fff">'''Remsense'''</span>]]<span style="color:#fff">&nbsp;🌈&nbsp;</span>[[User talk:Remsense|<span lang="zh" style="color:#fff">'''论'''</span>]]</span> 04:52, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I too will defer to other editors who wish to put back my edit, retain your reversion of it, or offer a third option. I think you mean "veering," not "leering." [[User:Maurice Magnus|Maurice Magnus]] ([[User talk:Maurice Magnus|talk]]) 04:59, 6 July 2025 (UTC)